Fantasque Time Line

[DMZ]

[Anaxagore]

[Hardric62]

[Casus Frankie]

Merci d'avoir essayé, Hardric !
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Casus Frankie

"Si l'on n'était pas frivole, la plupart des gens se pendraient" (Voltaire)

[Hardric62]

[Anaxagore]

[DMZ]

Deux commentaires intéressants piqués dans le lot (c'est moi qui souligne) :

@phileascurtil5605

5:10 it was not the relocalisation of the governement that was a humiliation for Pétain but the fact that, if the army capitulated, the defeat was due to the army, and the shame too. However, if the state asked for an armistice, the defeat was due to the governemnt, leaving the pride of the old military guard intact...
At Mers el Kebir, multiple cousins and brothers of my great grandfather died. In families tied to the marine, it is still a trauma and a lot of them still keeps a grudge to the british for this treason.
A very important thing that is almost always overlooked was the fact that De Gaulle and Pétain knew each other very well as De Gaulle was a student of Pétain and dedicated its first books to him even if they did not agreed about a lot of things.
21:25 Some territories in Italy were claimed by the french after WW2 but we only gained Belfort (that was french before, lost and regained after WW2)
24:55 Pétain would likely support a third way party in Italy between US friendly and communist parties. This would lead (if successful) to a latin alliance even larger than described here. Stability of Pétain's regime is unpredictible as you said due to the rivality between Pétain and UK (so not that much support to expect from there) and communist opponent that would get a lot of good arguments against an authoritarian regime.
25:32 he wasn't 98 yo but 89. Still very old but 9 years less.
27:27 it is possible that, because the french fought from north africa (especially algeria) in this scenario, and with a state way less destabilized, north african colonies would have been kept. Morroco was a protectorate and would have been let go without too much troubles but Algeria was not an "exploitation colonies" like the others but a "living colonie" and was organised in full french departments with the inhabitants having (in some cases) the full french citizenship. Mitterand (future french president but at that time, minister of interior) said "Algeria is France and France does not recognise any other autorities than hers in her territory." This really show that at this time, french peoples really wanted to keep Algeria. If the "crisis" was properly treated, Algeria would likely be french still today. The use of paratroopers for police operations and violent actions against civilians was a turning point in this and lead to a change in popular opinions, both in France and Algeria leading to a costly war of independance and major atrocities from both sides.
However, other colonies in Africa would have likely seceded without that much troubles as their status was really not the same. Indochina is unpredictible as it was a mixed colonies with local elites highly educated in the french ways and favorable to french authority or local independance. Same problem as Algeria but with a communist guerilla from the beginning instead of progressively organised.

Thank you for the video. This scenario is really well done and interesting.

Note : C'est Tende et non Belfort.


@joshuawindsor-knox3626

I question if Japan still gets into a war with the West in this scenario, it was controversial move among Japanese high command in OTL and if the odds look even slightly worse I can see cooler heads prevailing. The likely result is a gradual withdraw from most of China, with Japan still maintaining influence in Manchuria and maybe getting some of the concessions they were initially given after WW1 in Shandong restored. For Japan's domestic politics the military likely still retains influence but they'd allow a gradual return to civilian rule as in OTL the Japanese military never really had much interest in governing outside of war and foreign affairs. As the Cold War starts up Japan likely becomes a cautious American ally due to fear of the Soviets and almost certainly holds onto Taiwan into the present and possibly even Korea( or at the very least eventually grant Korea autonomy or independence with heavy Japanese military and economic influence) as Japan was far less over extended than the European empires. The IJN in this scenario is untouched and Japan is not forcibly demilitarized leaving Japan as still being a great power on the world stage, potentially ready to grab influence as the rest of Asia and the Pacific decolonizes all while radically altering Japanese culture from OTL.

Note : la docilité des militaires japonais est un peu trop vite acceptée dans ce commenataire.
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« Vi offro fame, sete, marce forzate, battaglia e morte. » « Je vous offre la faim, la soif, la marche forcée, la bataille et la mort. » Giuseppe Garibaldi

[DMZ]

[Elan Vital]

[Hardric62]

[demolitiondan]

Si je puis me permettre, n'y passez pas plus d'énergie que cela en vaut. C'est à dire ...
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Quand la vérité n’ose pas aller toute nue, la robe qui l’habille le mieux est encore l’humour &
C’est en trichant pour le beau que l’on est artiste

[loic]

@Elan Vital : je pense qu'il va falloir séparer tes messages, le sujet est intéressant à suivre en tant que tel (ce topic est un fourre-tout).
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On ne trébuche pas deux fois sur la même pierre (proverbe oriental)
En principe (moi) ...

[Elan Vital]

[DMZ]

Une série de six épisodes sur France Culture :

« La guerre des ondes (1939-1945) »

En particulier des informations étonnantes dans :
Épisode 4/6 : Les bonnes recettes de la propagande

https://www.radiofrance.fr/franceculture/podcasts/salle-des-archives/les-bonnes-recettes-de-la-propagande-2310299

Chose étonnante, il semble qu'un courrier non négligeable soit arrivé à la BBC en provenance de France. Je me demande bien comment ces lettres pouvaient passer la censure et parvenir en Grande Bretagne. J'imagine que ce n'était qu'à partir de la zone non occupée mais quand même...

[loic]