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1940 - La France continue la guerre
 
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La Grèce en guerre / Greece at war
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demolitiondan



Inscrit le: 19 Sep 2016
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Localisation: Salon-de-Provence - Grenoble - Paris

MessagePosté le: Mar Avr 23, 2019 09:30    Sujet du message: Répondre en citant

Yeees, I am perfectly aware of Frederika of Hanover problematic ... Well, clearly, it is his main weak spot - political opposition take advantage of it. I may create a incident in order to make things more credible : did she made any sillly thing after the liberation ?

As I said before, I inherited a situation. And the guy who was before me - Patrikev - is unfortunatly MIA (a talented men). But It doesn't matter. I fully understand your concern about political balance in greek Command - it is winter, maybe the time for some changes as the Greek royal army is preparing to go abroad ? This can easily by done in the futur text for febuary 1944 !

Can you detail me (even by private message if you want - not everything should be public 'Suspens Rolling Eyes ') the main reason of the 'retirement' of some general and the profil (and reason) to choose others ? Why Batas ? Who is Vrachnos ? - by example between many other !

I am afraid Spiliotopoulos is locked away in Athens with Monty. Liosis is chief of staff - but Maraveas (which was forced to resign after a nasty business with Giraud) is free...
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Lascaris



Inscrit le: 21 Avr 2019
Messages: 10

MessagePosté le: Mar Avr 23, 2019 12:43    Sujet du message: Répondre en citant

demolitiondan a écrit:
Yeees, I am perfectly aware of Frederika of Hanover problematic ... Well, clearly, it is his main weak spot - political opposition take advantage of it. I may create a incident in order to make things more credible : did she made any sillly thing after the liberation ?

As I said before, I inherited a situation. And the guy who was before me - Patrikev - is unfortunatly MIA (a talented men). But It doesn't matter. I fully understand your concern about political balance in greek Command - it is winter, maybe the time for some changes as the Greek royal army is preparing to go abroad ? This can easily by done in the futur text for febuary 1944 !

Can you detail me (even by private message if you want - not everything should be public 'Suspens Rolling Eyes ') the main reason of the 'retirement' of some general and the profil (and reason) to choose others ? Why Batas ? Who is Vrachnos ? - by example between many other !

I am afraid Spiliotopoulos is locked away in Athens with Monty. Liosis is chief of staff - but Maraveas (which was forced to resign after a nasty business with Giraud) is free...


Psarros I presume is known from the resistance he headed EKKA and was killed by the communists, so to get to the rest:

Vasileios Vrachnos: commanding general I infantry division in 1940-41, under his command it got nicknamed "the iron division" for its performance. He was the man responsible for the Greek victory in the battle of Pindus in the start of the war, then was in the thick of the fighting during the Italian spring offensive his division holding Height 731 against 18 Italian assaults, till the Italians gave up on the offensive.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vasileios_Vrachnos

Charalambos Katsimitros: commanding general VIII infantry division in 1940-41. He was the one who stopped cold the Italian invasion of Epirus in October 1940, then successfully led his division to the end of the war.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Charalambos_Katsimitros

Socrates Demaratos: commander Greek cavalry brigade, (Stanotas was in command of the Cavalry division and his commanding officer), again very notable role in the battle of Pindus and throughout the campaign, including successfully fighting the German 73rd division at Florina. A natural for the armoured brigade particularly since the very successful Stanotas needs to be promoted up.

On the reverse: General Napoleon Batas... had to google who he was. He commanded the Greek military academy in 1936-40 but that's about it. Not exactly a notable figure. Stergiopoulos at least did lead XVIII division, not a star of the war but still... Katsotas would certainly get a regiment but not an independent command with others like Psarros available.

At a guess you got the names from the lists of the Greek army chiefs available online no? Wink But these for 1941-48 were for the most parts colonels in 1940 who had escaped to Egypt while the generals had not.

Liosis would make an excellent choice as chief of staff, he was widely respected by both republicans and royalists given his war record since 1912, to the actual army commander. My suggestion if we don't want to bring back Pangalos despite his military qualities which would be essential to reorganize the army in 1941, would be Othonaios https://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alexandros_Othonaios

This way you have a respected republican as army chief, with a neutral (Liosis) as his chief of staff and two royalists, Papadopoulos and Kosmas right under him as corps commanders.

Plus arguably a republican for the XIII division forming in the islands. The trio Psarros, Sarafis, Bakirtzis are obvious choices (in FTL the latter two most probably were not involved at all with EAM, given stronger non-communist resistance groups) I'd suggest Bakirtzis as the senior one, with Tsakalotos, Psarros and Sarafis commanding the next divisions to be formed.
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demolitiondan



Inscrit le: 19 Sep 2016
Messages: 1737
Localisation: Salon-de-Provence - Grenoble - Paris

MessagePosté le: Mar Avr 23, 2019 13:02    Sujet du message: Répondre en citant

Indeed, Psarros was killed by ELAS in 1943. Well, I understand the problematic, and if Casus is OK with that, they may be some 'remaniement' (or turnover) in The Greek army during 43-44 winter. On the basis (public) it will be 'Hey Fellows, you 've done well, let the seat for other now that Greece is free ...' and the reality could be 'Now that we struggle to keep political balance, King has to make concessions in order to have some republican support'. What do you say ?

For the list ... as I said, I inherited. Only the 5th and 13th Division commander are my choice. And, with fully respect, I must admit I not the most familiar with WW2 greek general (but I keep on improving - the least to say). Liosis should stay as chief of staff - he is at the seat only since december 42. Too soon, too late.

And we don't have an army chief for Greek. Due to complications and historical considerations, they re still under French nominal command (Sylvestre Audet, who just remplaced Henri Dentz) of the 2nd French Army. This formation included til 42 two french army corps ... which are now in France of course since Dragoon landing. So, the army is a empty shell : 1 french division, one heavy artillery regiment and one tunisian elite motorized regiment. But also two army corps of Greece and one Polish (LOL) ! The yugoslav go in and out also, when needed.

I was keen on keeping the french command, at least until the yugoslav liberation. It's for prestige (french give the stuff for the polish and yugoslav !) and ... well french are neutral ! No jealousie, no ego problems... no long-lived revendications. But, due to the importance of Greek contribution in the future 'Veritable' opération (Wait, coming soon), Audet may have à second in command who could be greek. Othonaios for exemple ... And the guy would become commander of Greek army later - everybody know it. What do you think Casus ?

The XIIIth Division ... only this one. I m not sure there will be other til the end of war. Psarros is dead. Sarafis was never mentionned and Bakirtzis either. Roll the Dice ! Laughing Laughing Laughing
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demolitiondan



Inscrit le: 19 Sep 2016
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Localisation: Salon-de-Provence - Grenoble - Paris

MessagePosté le: Mar Avr 23, 2019 15:51    Sujet du message: Répondre en citant

Loic, puis je te suggérer de séparer les échanges avec notre jeune camarade grec sur l'ODB ?
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Quand la vérité n’ose pas aller toute nue, la robe qui l’habille le mieux est encore l’humour &
C’est en trichant pour le beau que l’on est artiste
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loic
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Inscrit le: 16 Oct 2006
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MessagePosté le: Mar Avr 23, 2019 17:11    Sujet du message: Répondre en citant

demolitiondan a écrit:
Loic, puis je te suggérer de séparer les échanges avec notre jeune camarade grec sur l'ODB ?

Yes, Sir ! In a couple ouf hours ...
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