Fantasque Time Line Index du Forum Fantasque Time Line
1940 - La France continue la guerre
 
 FAQFAQ   RechercherRechercher   Liste des MembresListe des Membres   Groupes d'utilisateursGroupes d'utilisateurs   S'enregistrerS'enregistrer 
 ProfilProfil   Se connecter pour vérifier ses messages privésSe connecter pour vérifier ses messages privés   ConnexionConnexion 

La Grèce en guerre / Greece at war
Aller à la page 1, 2  Suivante
 
Poster un nouveau sujet   Répondre au sujet    Fantasque Time Line Index du Forum -> Les Alliés
Voir le sujet précédent :: Voir le sujet suivant  
Auteur Message
Lascaris



Inscrit le: 21 Avr 2019
Messages: 10

MessagePosté le: Lun Avr 22, 2019 11:32    Sujet du message: La Grèce en guerre / Greece at war Répondre en citant

Note from Loïc : topic splitted / Note de Loïc : sujet séparé.

Hardric62 a écrit:
Quelqu'un sur AH.com d'origine grecque a mentionné le basculement du pays côté allié en 1941, et parlait du fait que le pays aurait probablement voulu non pas seulement le Dodécannèse, mais aussi probablement l'Epire du nord (je me rappelle de mentions de spéculations sur le comportement des unités grecques là-bas durant la première campagne des Balkans), et Chypre, et de demandes de matériels pour l'armée (chose réglée indirectement je suppose avec le soutien d'unités alliées.
J'avoue être curieux concernant le raisonnement ayant poussé à faire ce choix pour la TL, puisque effectivement les difficultés de Mussolini stoppent une déclaration de guerre en octobre 40, et il doit y avoir une conscience du fait que l'Allemagne va probablement rejoindre l'Italie dans la guerre en cas de problèmes pour cette dernière.


Ah someone mentioned me? Smile No French I'm afraid so bear with me. For Greece of course North Epirus was terra irredenta in 1940 it had not been annexed by it after WW1 due to Italian opposition and France changing its vote in the League of Nations ambassadors committee that finally decided the matter in 1921 to support Italy after Constantine had been returned to the Greek throne. Oppression of the Greek community in the inter-war years and non application of the protocol of Florence hardly helped either.

Then come 1940 Italy used Albanian irredentist claims as justifications for its invasion of Greece (and Yugoslavia) while using Albanian collaborationist troops for the invasion. So from Athens point of view, of course they are going to demand North Epirus just as they did in OTL. Would France and Britain be accommodating? De Gaulle was certainly supportive OTL while Britain and the US gave some at least half-hearted support during the Paris peace conference with the subject technically left open for future discussion after the conference. (Of course by then the cold war had start, Greece was fighting its civil war and MABH the North Epirote non-communist resistance organization had been crushed by the Albanian communists who firmly controlled the area so...)

Cyprus is self-evident, particularly with Churchill who had been behind the 1912 plan to transfer Cyprus to Greece and the 1915 British offer to do so. From Athens point of view the opportunity is obvious "you offered us Cyprus to join WW1 under much better conditions in 1915. You want the same now under far more risky conditions. Does your 1915 offer stand?"
Revenir en haut de page
Voir le profil de l'utilisateur Envoyer un message privé Visiter le site web de l'utilisateur
Casus Frankie
Administrateur - Site Admin


Inscrit le: 16 Oct 2006
Messages: 10234
Localisation: Paris

MessagePosté le: Lun Avr 22, 2019 11:56    Sujet du message: Répondre en citant

Welcome Lascaris.

North Epirus : in 1940-41 FTL, Albania (including North Epirus) is an italian "colony", basically, if the Greeks can take it, they'll have it.
If they don't take it, sorry !
But in 1944 FTL, the Greeks may come back to ask for North Epirus - and if they can stop the troubles in that part of Albania, I bet everybody will be more than happy to give it to them (Demo Dan, take note !)

Cyprus : in 40-41 FTL, the Allies are fighting to give Greece Rhodes and so. They may tell the Greeks "you have Rhodes right now, instead of Cyprus" (in 1915, they could not give them italian Rhodes, of course !). And they don't want to endanger a potential turkish alliance.
In 44, the Allies may use Cyprus (minus british bases !) a a tool to negotiate a more active participation of the Greek army on the Balkan front (again, Demo Dan, take note !).
_________________
Casus Frankie

"Si l'on n'était pas frivole, la plupart des gens se pendraient" (Voltaire)


Dernière édition par Casus Frankie le Lun Avr 22, 2019 13:22; édité 1 fois
Revenir en haut de page
Voir le profil de l'utilisateur Envoyer un message privé
demolitiondan



Inscrit le: 19 Sep 2016
Messages: 2266
Localisation: Salon-de-Provence - Grenoble - Paris

MessagePosté le: Lun Avr 22, 2019 12:20    Sujet du message: Répondre en citant

Morning Lascaris, (et bonjour Casus - tu m'en voudra pas si je répond en Anglais).

I'm the guy in charge of the Balkans in FTL. So, first I need to give you one or two clues about the FTL situation compared to the OTL - in 1944 of course !

About Greece : in OTL, the royalist government is essentialy beaten and scattered, with litte to no legitimaty. It's need to conquer back the Greece before to even try to do something abroad. In FTL, the King is back, Georges II resigned and Paul is taking the regency until the end of the war. Paul is far more clever than Georges sooooooooo he will be far more careful and will not try to anger the communist, who are waiting eagerly his first misstep.

About Albania : OTL, it's a mess with a collaborationnist governement and the 'Balli Kombetar' which command. In FTL .... well it's also a mess with the AMGOT trying to keep peace between the three sector given to Hoxha, Balli and Legaliteli. They keep on fighting each other, with captured axis weapons and weapons given by SOE ... but with discretion. That's what matter for the allies, who really just want to get out of there ...

About Yugoslavia : OTL, the king doesn't count, the tcheniks are head-mud-deep into collaboration and the Tito partisans are the one who really fight Axis. In FTL, the King returned, very angry because of the ustachis horrors and is trying to build some 'nation in arms' against the betrayers - which means essentially serbs vs croats. In this mess, Tito stay silent for the moment and may (or may not I will not spoil - but the answer is easy) find a good way to gather the people, and become more than what he is allready is : the true lord and incarnation of the South Slavs Union.

So ... back to the North Epire. The greek really want for now to just only heal their country and escape civil war. The south sector is legateli sector - the royalist of Kupi - clearly not a friend of Greece. And the major boss of the north, Enver Hoxha, may find out that it is better for now to work hand to hand with Tito and Dimitrov in Bulgaria (do the Communist Slave Union bring you memories ?). It is allready acted that, just after the end of war in Balkans, Albania will struggle into a long and painful civil war (did it ended by the way ?).

Of course, USSR and Tito will help Hoxha. Greece may want to help legaliteli - but it is the weakest of the 3 movements and it is more and less allied to the balli kombetar (fascist and ex-collaborationist not clearly repented). I'm doubtful Greece will send troop in this mess - they may send a few counsellor and weapons to Kupi, in order to try to escape à second communist-stalinist neighbour. But Yugoslavia, which will have become a close friend, should politely intervene in order to say stuff like 'Hey Pal - our king are on the same family now. No nasty stuff please - Marschall Tito know Hoxha very well, nothing will happen. But don't try to bring ammo to fascist terrorist - not very fair, we were on the same side and general Brasic troops helped to liberate Greece ...' And so on and so on.

Of course, and it is implied in the chrono - Mao don't come to power in FTL. So, What comrade Hoxha do after Staline death ? What he always do : stupid stuff ! He try to annex Kosovo - of course People of Yugoslavia Royal Army clean his ass sweet and swift. Maybe with the help of greek ... I keep this open. North Epirus may be a UN occupation zone with Greek troops.

Of course, it is my point of vue, I will be more than happy to exchange with you about it.
_________________
Quand la vérité n’ose pas aller toute nue, la robe qui l’habille le mieux est encore l’humour &
C’est en trichant pour le beau que l’on est artiste
Revenir en haut de page
Voir le profil de l'utilisateur Envoyer un message privé
Anaxagore



Inscrit le: 02 Aoû 2010
Messages: 7310

MessagePosté le: Lun Avr 22, 2019 12:26    Sujet du message: Répondre en citant

demolitiondan a écrit:
So, What comrade Hoxha do after Staline death ? What he always do : stupid stuff !


and construct a looooots of bunker. comrad Hoxha love bunker, cherish them, and love love loooove bunkers a lot !!!! Rolling Eyes
_________________
Ecoutez mon conseil : mariez-vous.
Si vous épousez une femme belle et douce, vous serez heureux... sinon, vous deviendrez un excellent philosophe.
Revenir en haut de page
Voir le profil de l'utilisateur Envoyer un message privé
Archibald



Inscrit le: 04 Aoû 2007
Messages: 3107

MessagePosté le: Lun Avr 22, 2019 13:08    Sujet du message: Répondre en citant

The crazy SOB build 80 000 of them ! Albania still holds that unenviable world record of bunkers-per-km2, and probably for a very long time to come !!

Lascaris: you can present yourself here (if you want of course, nothing mandatory)

http://www.1940lafrancecontinue.org/forum/viewtopic.php?p=86951#86951
_________________
"Au fond, comme chef de l'État, deux choses lui avaient manqué : qu'il fût un chef ; qu'il y eût un État" (De Gaulle à propos d'Albert Lebrun, 1944).
...
"La Meuse, ça ne m'intéresse pas" Gamelin à Corap, mars 1940.
Revenir en haut de page
Voir le profil de l'utilisateur Envoyer un message privé
Hardric62



Inscrit le: 20 Avr 2019
Messages: 49
Localisation: Dijon

MessagePosté le: Lun Avr 22, 2019 15:08    Sujet du message: Répondre en citant

Hello Lascaris, happy to see that you decided to give that site a try. Feel free to look around as much as you want.
Revenir en haut de page
Voir le profil de l'utilisateur Envoyer un message privé
Casus Frankie
Administrateur - Site Admin


Inscrit le: 16 Oct 2006
Messages: 10234
Localisation: Paris

MessagePosté le: Lun Avr 22, 2019 15:24    Sujet du message: Répondre en citant

@ Lascaris
Please have a look on our archives - even if you don't read french, you'll see the amount of work involved.
And the pictures (ships, planes, tanks…) are international !
_________________
Casus Frankie

"Si l'on n'était pas frivole, la plupart des gens se pendraient" (Voltaire)
Revenir en haut de page
Voir le profil de l'utilisateur Envoyer un message privé
Archibald



Inscrit le: 04 Aoû 2007
Messages: 3107

MessagePosté le: Lun Avr 22, 2019 15:40    Sujet du message: Répondre en citant

Note that you can download the archive as pdfs on the site and then translate them through this tool

http://www.1940lafrancecontinue.org/

Tome 1 (on the left)
> Juin 1940 > sélectionnez le thème
> the pdf files are marked 0 - Bataille de France (6-12)

And then download the file and put it there (it translates Pdf)

https://translate.google.fr/#view=home&op=docs&sl=fr&tl=en

have a nice reading !
_________________
"Au fond, comme chef de l'État, deux choses lui avaient manqué : qu'il fût un chef ; qu'il y eût un État" (De Gaulle à propos d'Albert Lebrun, 1944).
...
"La Meuse, ça ne m'intéresse pas" Gamelin à Corap, mars 1940.
Revenir en haut de page
Voir le profil de l'utilisateur Envoyer un message privé
Lascaris



Inscrit le: 21 Avr 2019
Messages: 10

MessagePosté le: Lun Avr 22, 2019 15:52    Sujet du message: Répondre en citant

Archibald a écrit:
The crazy SOB build 80 000 of them ! Albania still holds that unenviable world record of bunkers-per-km2, and probably for a very long time to come !!

Lascaris: you can present yourself here (if you want of course, nothing mandatory)

http://www.1940lafrancecontinue.org/forum/viewtopic.php?p=86951#86951


Methinks you are down by an order of magnitude? I seem to recall 750,000 bunkers! Thanks for the pointer. You might remember me from SecretProjects, same nom de guerre Wink
Revenir en haut de page
Voir le profil de l'utilisateur Envoyer un message privé Visiter le site web de l'utilisateur
Archibald



Inscrit le: 04 Aoû 2007
Messages: 3107

MessagePosté le: Lun Avr 22, 2019 16:24    Sujet du message: Répondre en citant

800 000 bunkers ? Shocked Oh Enver, you old crazy idiot !

ah, cool, a Secret projects fellow !
_________________
"Au fond, comme chef de l'État, deux choses lui avaient manqué : qu'il fût un chef ; qu'il y eût un État" (De Gaulle à propos d'Albert Lebrun, 1944).
...
"La Meuse, ça ne m'intéresse pas" Gamelin à Corap, mars 1940.
Revenir en haut de page
Voir le profil de l'utilisateur Envoyer un message privé
demolitiondan



Inscrit le: 19 Sep 2016
Messages: 2266
Localisation: Salon-de-Provence - Grenoble - Paris

MessagePosté le: Lun Avr 22, 2019 18:01    Sujet du message: Répondre en citant

I confirm the 800 k bunkers scaterred all across the countries. Hoxha was à paranoid SOB - and he also had a pure leninist 'revolutionnary milicia' point of wiew. When a revolt of his own army (Stalin ghost look around his shoulder) or against à paratroopers attack. everyone in the city - or village - or countryside - is expected to run to the bunker (the main parti member has the key ...) and fend for himself and for the revolution. The time gained is supposed to allow the regular army to form a counteroffensive. Of course, any considération of manoeuver, distraction or event artillery is pure capitalist propaganda ... Now, they are used as storage, or school or even restaurant. But the huge majority is far too little to be of any use...

I note the North Epire stuff - discussing with Frank now.
_________________
Quand la vérité n’ose pas aller toute nue, la robe qui l’habille le mieux est encore l’humour &
C’est en trichant pour le beau que l’on est artiste
Revenir en haut de page
Voir le profil de l'utilisateur Envoyer un message privé
Lascaris



Inscrit le: 21 Avr 2019
Messages: 10

MessagePosté le: Lun Avr 22, 2019 22:28    Sujet du message: Répondre en citant

demolitiondan a écrit:
Morning Lascaris, (et bonjour Casus - tu m'en voudra pas si je répond en Anglais).

I'm the guy in charge of the Balkans in FTL. So, first I need to give you one or two clues about the FTL situation compared to the OTL - in 1944 of course !

About Greece : in OTL, the royalist government is essentialy beaten and scattered, with litte to no legitimaty. It's need to conquer back the Greece before to even try to do something abroad. In FTL, the King is back, Georges II resigned and Paul is taking the regency until the end of the war. Paul is far more clever than Georges sooooooooo he will be far more careful and will not try to anger the communist, who are waiting eagerly his first misstep.


Just a moment here if I may. In FTL there is another factor present in the Greek campaign namely none other than the French expeditionary corps. So first you probably have a number of high ranking republican officers that got left behind in occupied Greece in OTL like Theodore Pangalos or Othonaios and Sarafis either rejoining the army before the mainland is lost or escaping to Crete. Why? Because all of them had very close contacts with their French counterparts from ww1 and the interwar years, several being graduates of the ecole de guerre and having fought together in the Macedonian front. Then you have high ranking Republican politicians like Themistokles Sofoulis and George Papandreou escaping to Crete along the French forces.

This both increases the republican influence within the evacuated army and removes from the mainland officers that might have ended up in ELAS. Pangalos is particularly important here, he's the man who had restored the Greek army's discipline and morale after the Asia Minor disaster in 1922 and most likely replaces Papagos in command of the army (Othonaios is a possible alternative)

Then there is Nikolaos Plastiras in OTL exiled in France whom SOE would not bring in Greece to head the resistance despite proposals to that effect... but here I'd very much expect its French counterpart to do. The results of that and a Greek government influencing things from Crete (and presumably the east Aegean islands like Lesvos and Chios?) are going to cascade. In OTL there were multiple mostly republican resistance organizations that ended up destroyed or absorbed by EAM. ATL they start earlier, get more support at the cost of EAM and then Plastiras who had an immense influence not just among officers but also the 1922 refugees who formed quite a bit of EAM recruits shows up.

End result is that on one hand the communists are far less influential in the resistance, by the time of liberation Plastiras is likely leading an army of the interior (deliberately copying the French name here) way stronger than the alt-EAM is, the AK-AL correlation of forces in Poland may well be a good example here. On the other hald though even Paul as regent may well be too much and Sofoulis as regent may be more likely. I fully expect the king to lose the post-war referendum by margins similar to 1924 and 1974 either way.


Citation:

About Albania : OTL, it's a mess with a collaborationnist governement and the 'Balli Kombetar' which command. In FTL .... well it's also a mess with the AMGOT trying to keep peace between the three sector given to Hoxha, Balli and Legaliteli. They keep on fighting each other, with captured axis weapons and weapons given by SOE ... but with discretion. That's what matter for the allies, who really just want to get out of there ...


Let me make it a little more complicated. There was also MAVI the Northern Epirus Liberation Front operating in Southern Albania fighting against the Germans, Italians, Ballists and after some point Hoxha when it got attacked by him despite the SOE pressure not to. In FTL if LNC if the south is part of the Legalitely sector they are even stronger as the 1,500 Greek partisans with LNC most likely go with them not the royalists. Perhaps have a sector for them along the coast in the south from Himara/Himare south to the west of the Aoos/Vjose river where most of the Greek populations were concentrated?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Northern_Epirus_Liberation_Front

Citation:

About Yugoslavia : OTL, the king doesn't count, the tcheniks are head-mud-deep into collaboration and the Tito partisans are the one who really fight Axis. In FTL, the King returned, very angry because of the ustachis horrors and is trying to build some 'nation in arms' against the betrayers - which means essentially serbs vs croats.


Hmm. How much luck did Mihailovic personally have in FTL? If Peter is leading an active resistance campaign I could possibly see Serb nationalist resistance in control of Serbia and Montenegro while Tito dominates the resistance in Bosnia, Croatia and Slovenia.

Citation:



Of course, and it is implied in the chrono - Mao don't come to power in FTL. So, What comrade Hoxha do after Staline death ? What he always do : stupid stuff ! He try to annex Kosovo - of course People of Yugoslavia Royal Army clean his ass sweet and swift. Maybe with the help of greek ... I keep this open. North Epirus may be a UN occupation zone with Greek troops.

Of course, it is my point of vue, I will be more than happy to exchange with you about it.


I quite agree on Greece having close friendly relations with Yugoslavia post war, although Greece will be in NATO of course and a royal socialist Yugoslavia likely will not. That said though arguably Greece will be sending its royal family packing in 1945 without a civil war to complicate things over... while in the Albanian civil war why they have their own people to back without sending troops directly. Hoxha can then be counted upon to attack them despite Tito trying to restrain him...[/quote]
Revenir en haut de page
Voir le profil de l'utilisateur Envoyer un message privé Visiter le site web de l'utilisateur
demolitiondan



Inscrit le: 19 Sep 2016
Messages: 2266
Localisation: Salon-de-Provence - Grenoble - Paris

MessagePosté le: Lun Avr 22, 2019 23:29    Sujet du message: Répondre en citant

Very very interesting – I will try to give you answer by subject. On the Greece however, please consider I inherited a situation:
On the Greece : there is two subject on your message. First come the army.
The greek royal army is deeply involved in the French 2nd army, and quite powerful. Here is the ODB for the two Army corps.
1ST Army corps : Lt-général Giorgios Kosmas
 1st Infantry Division : general Batas,
 3th Mountain Brigade : colonel Tsakalotos
 6th Mountain Brigade : colonel Katsotas
2nd Army corps : Lt-général Georgios Tsolakoglou
 5th Infantry Division : general Dimitrios Papadopoulos,
 13th Infantry Division : general Léonidas Stergiopoulos,
 1st Armored brigade : general Georgios Stanotas

Indeed, the royal army is far more powerful and come back to the country as winner – not auxiliary of the british. It’s strengthen significantly the power of the royalist party. And bring to the attic’s conferency (12th august 1943 – go see it, I m pround of it !) where bascally the patriarch is brought to make intercession and the communist agree to enter into the government. No choice : they are not supported by the soviet and quite isolated. There will other accident after that … of course, but not covered by Roussos or Staline. Indeed, in the process, Papandreou made à lot of work. He is now prime minister, and main interlocutor for the allies. Pangalos is now on retirement – the chief of staff is Liosis. And Plastiras tried to make a full republican government at Beyrouth – he failed.

The second subject is monarchy. The main factor is one of my masterpiece (well from my point of view) is the ‘Speech of a King’ on the 29th October 1943. Please look . Basically, all the greek territory is now freed and Georges II come to Salonika in order to have a ‘Hurray we won’ speech. But, after his trip, and especially his visit in Salonika which is totally ravaged (it sustained a tedious 4 week siege!), he make an heart attack on stage, and decide to retire and leave power to Prince Paul. I checked, this is possible in the Constitution.

Now please consider both elements. We have a far more powerful and legitimate royalist power, and a weakened communist opposition. No civil war. Paul is a clever man, he carefully stay in touch and after the war, bring à constitutional revision which build a representative monarchy (like in Spain). This revision is approved by referendum at narrow score (around 52%). He retire, Constantin 1st become king at his majority. By the way, it please a lot of people in Europa, especially the UK which brought a lot of money in Greece in exchange of their support. It is a choice I made, in accordance with other. It, of course, can be debated.

About Epirus : we mentioned in the chronology the ‘Pinde Principauty’ – the Italian creation. Of course, I assume there will be greek partisans in this region. But please consider that legaliteli are King Zog supporter ! At least on the speak … So, they should not support Kupi . Back to the occupation zone – for now it is out of question. But I speaked with Casus, there may be evolution soon. Stay focused …

About Yugoslavia. Well, I have to summarize a three month long operation. To be brief, after the liberation of Greece, Montgomery build a operation ‘Market’ which is a reasoning success and liberate Macedonia. It is supposed to be followed by ‘Garden’ (remind you something ?) straight to Belgrad. But … due to logistical consideration and ‘please not believe politician and especially Churchill’ meme, this was cancelled.

In the same time, the german decide to disarm tcheniks collaborationist milicia (Nikola Kalabic for example …) due to insurrectional activities during Market and big ustachis lobbying. Chiefs are gathered at Belgrad (not enough men to look for every single of them). Of course, they learned about it and go to full insurrection in Belgrad, where a long-bloody-nasty street fight occur. South from here, the 1st Yugoslav Army Corps learn about it and go ‘Full thrust ahead’ to help their Serbian brother. The british follow, reluctantly. At Leskovac, Serbian Armored Brigade get wasted by the 1st Panzer Division in Ambush. But, in the same time, Romania and Bulgaria switched side (soviet offensive was the second main concern for Peter the 2nd by the way …) and the left flank of the 12.armee is now free and vulnerable. The Heer evacuee Serbia, and Mihailovic is killed during fratricid fight near Kragujevac

And of course, in Bosnia and Croatia, Tito gather his force .
_________________
Quand la vérité n’ose pas aller toute nue, la robe qui l’habille le mieux est encore l’humour &
C’est en trichant pour le beau que l’on est artiste
Revenir en haut de page
Voir le profil de l'utilisateur Envoyer un message privé
Casus Frankie
Administrateur - Site Admin


Inscrit le: 16 Oct 2006
Messages: 10234
Localisation: Paris

MessagePosté le: Lun Avr 22, 2019 23:53    Sujet du message: Répondre en citant

A small addendum to the Greek Order of Battle
- Greek army has one more infantry division, in the (now) greek islands.
- And they have an air force : three fighter squadrons and two medium bombers squadrons.
- Plus a navy, of course (destroyers, light escort ships…)
[Most of the bigger ships have been sunk. Some big guns of old BB Kilkis, salvaged by Germans, have been used in a german-held island fortress… and destroyed by a daring assault team. May be you remember something like that… Wink]
The greek armed forces are carefully husbanded by british forces.
_________________
Casus Frankie

"Si l'on n'était pas frivole, la plupart des gens se pendraient" (Voltaire)
Revenir en haut de page
Voir le profil de l'utilisateur Envoyer un message privé
Lascaris



Inscrit le: 21 Avr 2019
Messages: 10

MessagePosté le: Mar Avr 23, 2019 01:27    Sujet du message: Répondre en citant

demolitiondan a écrit:
Very very interesting – I will try to give you answer by subject. On the Greece however, please consider I inherited a situation:
On the Greece : there is two subject on your message. First come the army.
The greek royal army is deeply involved in the French 2nd army, and quite powerful. Here is the ODB for the two Army corps.
1ST Army corps : Lt-général Giorgios Kosmas
 1st Infantry Division : general Batas,
 3th Mountain Brigade : colonel Tsakalotos
 6th Mountain Brigade : colonel Katsotas
2nd Army corps : Lt-général Georgios Tsolakoglou
 5th Infantry Division : general Dimitrios Papadopoulos,
 13th Infantry Division : general Léonidas Stergiopoulos,
 1st Armored brigade : general Georgios Stanotas

Indeed, the royal army is far more powerful and come back to the country as winner – not auxiliary of the british. It’s strengthen significantly the power of the royalist party. And bring to the attic’s conferency (12th august 1943 – go see it, I m pround of it !) where bascally the patriarch is brought to make intercession and the communist agree to enter into the government. No choice : they are not supported by the soviet and quite isolated. There will other accident after that … of course, but not covered by Roussos or Staline. Indeed, in the process, Papandreou made à lot of work. He is now prime minister, and main interlocutor for the allies. Pangalos is now on retirement – the chief of staff is Liosis. And Plastiras tried to make a full republican government at Beyrouth – he failed.


I have my doubts about Paul... if nothing else he still has his German wife and Frederica has a well known historical record of messing up things but what is done is done. And Plastiras was always loyal to the Venizelos family, if they tell him to accept the Crete government so he will. May I suggest though some issues with the chain of command above? Leaving aside that it's not balanced as far as Venizelists go, despite a Venizelist PM, as I've mentioned in the post about Spiliotopoulos, Tsolakoglou had leukaemia so in 1944 he's not such a good choice (leaving his collaboration aside). Papadopoulos on the other hand commanded B corps in 1940. Note that traditionally the Greek army uses Greek numeral for the corps and Latin for divisions, also divisions and regiments all were recruiting from specific areas, V was Crete, XIII the Aegean islands, while Euzone regiments were in effect mountain infantry. So may I propose this? Changes mostly depicting the institutional continuation. Also added the division Casus Frankie mentioned for the islands

Hellenic army (proposed CiC general Alexandros Othonaios)
A corps: Lt-général Georgios Kosmas
I Infantry division: gen Vasileios Vrachnos
3/40 Euzone regiment: col. Tsakalotos
5/42 Euzone regiment: col. Demetrios Psarros
B corps: Lt-général Dimitrios Papadopoulos
II Infantry division: general Charalambos Katsimitros
V Infantry division: general Georgios Stanotas
1st Armored Brigade: col Socrates Demaratos
Aegean islands
XIII Infantry division: col Panagiotis Spiliotopoulos
Revenir en haut de page
Voir le profil de l'utilisateur Envoyer un message privé Visiter le site web de l'utilisateur
Montrer les messages depuis:   
Poster un nouveau sujet   Répondre au sujet    Fantasque Time Line Index du Forum -> Les Alliés Toutes les heures sont au format GMT + 1 Heure
Aller à la page 1, 2  Suivante
Page 1 sur 2

 
Sauter vers:  
Vous ne pouvez pas poster de nouveaux sujets dans ce forum
Vous ne pouvez pas répondre aux sujets dans ce forum
Vous ne pouvez pas éditer vos messages dans ce forum
Vous ne pouvez pas supprimer vos messages dans ce forum
Vous ne pouvez pas voter dans les sondages de ce forum


Powered by phpBB © 2001, 2005 phpBB Group
Traduction par : phpBB-fr.com